Talk:History of the Jews in Algeria

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Algeria Mid‑importance

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Ethnic groups Mid‑importance

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Judaism Mid‑importance

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History High‑importance

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Title

I can see the argument for consistency, but at the same time this article clearly deals with more than just the history. I think the old title is more appropriate in many respects, but I'm not going to insist... Anyone else have any thoughts? - Mustafaa 18:42, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Despite agitating for the name change, I am also ambivalent about the current naming convention, although I think I have created over a dozen articles of History of the Jews in ______ over the past six months. In any case, if we are going to change the naming convention, lets change it for all the articles, since they all follow the same format, covering history and present situations. The only exception is the United States, which covers contemporary Jewish culture in the Jewish American article, and history in the History of the Jews in the United States article. So, should we rename every article to be Jews in ___? I vote a weak "no," but I am open to thoughts. --Goodoldpolonius2 18:52, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The articles discuss more than history, and also discuss near-contemporary events, so "History" is not accurate. "History" also tends to imply that these article are all about now-defunct communities, when this is clearly not always the case. I think the articles in general should be named "Jews in Algeria", "Jews in Tunisia", "Jews in the United States", "Jews in Canada", etc., and each should have a History section. If any History section gets too large, it can be placed in its own sub-article (as with the United States). Jayjg ^(talk) 19:30, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If we decide to do this, much work must be done, as there are many crosslinks to these articles, outside of the Jew template, the Jewish History articles, and the Jewish population pages. --Goodoldpolonius2 19:38, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Some parts of the article are not consistent and miss a lot of references, for instance :

as it had been in Algeria longer even before Islam and could trace its presence to Roman times, around 2600 years ago starting in the year 586 BCE.[3]

Re-Edit

There should be an article about the language , however this can be debated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ekarfi13 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Shoah in Algeria

I don't think this title is correct since there had never been any project for exterminating Algerian Jews. But a very shameful anti-Semitic policy was set up by the French governor Maxime Weygand. Algerian Jews then lost any judicial systems. They were no longer considered French Citizens and they had lost during the preceding century their traditional system. Among many others unjustified disposition, he published a decree that excluded Jews children from school and this never happened in the part of France that marêchal Pétain ruled. Because he tried avoiding the delivery of weapons to the nazi army, he first lost his delegation for ruling French colonies and was arrested by nazis and imprisoned within an Austrian castle. After the war he was suited for collaborating with the enemy but the court dropped the accusation and was never tried for his anti-Semitic policy. His successor after the American intervention General Giraud tried to maintain this policy but had to repeal it thanks to French Gaullists, British and American military authorities.

The tittle should be "Jews from Algeria during WWII" because the role of Jews from Algeria for fighting against the fascists of Vichy Government is probably as important as the anti-Semitic policy that was applied to them. I Will try to find if any consistent book had been published in France about that. I red a lot of personal souvenirs but was very upset by hearing a French journalist, Mr Zemmour that introduces himself as a Jew form Algerian ancestry, saying in TV that "Marêchal saved Algerian Jews" while instead Vichy government humiliated even Jew veterans that fought during WWI under Marêchal Pétain commandment during the Battle of Verdun--Leznodc (talk) 01:47, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Karaite Judaism

Before they convert to Islam many berber tribes in Algeria had embraced some flavour of Karaite Judaism. Ibn Khaldun wrote that queen Kahina was Jew and many berber tribes only converted to Islam very late. Jews left kingdom of Aragon from 1381 because of persecutions. 1492 was only a bigger one. There is no connection with the expelling of Moriscos that happened one century after. Many historians today think that Moriscos were not all Muslim but that most of them were Christians with different cultural habits. So King Philip the Third of Spain would have expelled christians that were this way, more or less, constrained to embrace Islam. Nevertheless recent inquiries suggest that due to lack of money, Spanish monarchy policies were badly enforced during the XVIIth century. Many Muslims, Arabic Christian and Jews.stayed in Spain anyway. Please give a look at Sephardic Reuters: Jews leave genetic legacy in Spain and NY Times: DNA study shows 20 percent of Iberian population has Jewish ancestry. --Leznodc (talk) 02:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Migrations

In the XVIIth century , Granas (i.e Jews from Livorno , Italy) have started settling in Algeria. They were highly envolved into commercial tradings and exchanges between Europe and the Ottoman Empire , renforcing the rows of the Jewish community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.132.96.98 (talk) 09:44, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Overlap with Jewish exodus article

Please see discussion at Talk:Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries#Overlap_with_.22History_of_the_Jews_in....22_articles. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:09, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Algeria is Judenfrei

While 2 years ago there was a reported 200 jews in Algeria--today there are none. Source is the website of the World Jewish Congress which under the heading of Algeria reports: https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/a...7635384142 World Jewish Congress website Quote:"Jews lived in Algeria from the pre-Roman period to the early 1960s. There is no Jewish community left in Algeria today."(Accessed 19 March 2022) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.130.124 (talk) 14:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1) That source was last updated in 2018. 2) It says: "The number of Jews living in Algeria is unknown, but historians estimate that the country’s Jewish population is made up of a handful of people, practicing in secret." 3) A cited source from 2020 says: "the State Department estimated around 200 Jews remained in Algeria in 2020". 4) I already explained this to you (see my comment on your previous IP's talk page) M.Bitton (talk) 15:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No Mention of Algerian Nationality Law in 1963, We Can Do Better.

The article states that the Jews in Algeria "left Algeria en masse, not because they were persecuted there as Jews but because they had so deeply internalized their "Frenchness" that they considered their destiny linked to that of the French"

Quite frankly, this is an absurd claim.

Firstly, it does not take into an account that the 1963 Algerian Constitution did not recognize Jews as citizens (Algerian nationality law). Only those with "two paternal ancestral lines which had Muslim status in Algeria" got citizenship. Which, might I add, was a violation of the FLN's promise to the Jewish community, as the article states "guaranteeing a place in Algeria for Jews as an integral constituent of the Algerian people." The Jews of Algeria were denied the rights and status of their fellow Algerians. This is persecution.

Secondly, this claim comes from a single source. We are letting one paper define the identity and views of an ethnic community with over a thousand years of documented history in a region. It is absurd to claim that 130,000 Jews internalized an abstract idea and left. Some did, I do not dispute this. However, I am very wary of using any one source to summarize the views of an ethnic group; let alone accepting that ethnic groups all share the same set of internal beliefs.

Persecution played a large role in the flight of a community with nearly two thousand documented years of existence in Algeria. This article outright denies it. I realize this is a loaded topic because anything related to colonialism, zionism, nationalism and what have you always is. I also realize this event directly relates to the founding of Algeria as a nation and thus many might see this as an attack on their nationality. These are messy things to deal with, and I don't think there will be a version where everyone is happy.

But should we extend the type of logic, academic standards and the same selectiveness of the facts to other articles: we would find that the Armenian Genocide was a justified response to Armenian terrorists, that the indigenous nations of the Americas were graciously assimilated, and that the Nakba was the result of the Ottoman citizens internalizing the nationalist sentiment of external agitators. None of those are acceptable, neither is this.

tdlr; Can we please have a NPOV that reflects persecution and that some jews may have also felt more French? 2601:188:C081:33D0:909D:9AE4:9897:8FDC (talk) 18:41, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please stick to the facts: the Algerian Jews left en masse between 1961 and 1962. What happened after that is irrelevant to their departure.

Also, they were considered and, more important than that, they considered themselves first and foremost as French (their Jewishness played second fiddle to that). M.Bitton (talk) 19:26, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]